John Lydon's watch details page


My Ramblings on Patek 2526 April 2009 Probably the most well known and possibly desireable time only watch made by Patek Philippe. It has many attributes that made it such. Below are some of the highlights. The first Automatic (12-600AT) made by Patek Philippe. Double baked Enamel Dial. Classic oversized (for the period) Calatrava case. Water proof screw back case. Special crown with the double PP back to back on it. An 18 karat rotor, perhaps the 1^st time a vitally important part of a movement was made out of 18k gold. A special bracelet made specifically by “Gay Freres” for the 2526. The minute track was gold, painted on the baked enamel. The 1^st 2526 was delivered to a well known patek owner by the name of JB Champion on July 1953. The movement s/n was 760000. I personally have had many of the 2526’s and will always have at least 1 in my collection. Currently I have a very early s/n 760015 (16^th one made) with a Tiffany dial. I regret several I have sold but none more than the yellow gold, black enamel dial. I am sure someday I will get another. Cases The 2526 case was made in yellow, rose, white gold and platinum. 36mm in diameter. Hallmarks were placed in different places which seems to be part of Patek’s DNA. With watches that had a bracelet you will see wear just under the lugs. I do not see this as a major issue for collectors. Dials: There was a great variety of dials but the 1^st series (for a lack of a better word) was the double baked enamel which has a slight beige tint to it. It had flared holes to accept the hour baton markers which had pins on them. The holes were flared to ease the process of the enameling. The baton markers were inserted into the holes on the dial and then swaged over. This process must have been very delicate and I would imagine many dials were lost between this process and having the holes in the dial. This led to the elimination of the holes and the hour baton markers being applied with an epoxy/adhesive. Many collectors find the dials with the flared holed holes much more desireable. Being an enamel dial some of the dials did experience damage. Of those that were damaged the common problem is minute hairline cracks. These hairline cracks seem to appear in the area of 11:00 and 5:00. I have seen them in other areas of the dial but the majority of the ones I have seen are usually in this area. There are a lot of theories out there, temperature/co-efficient of thermal expansion of two different materials, getting hit thus making it a very fragile watch, or leaving it in a safe for extended periods. I cannot say if one or any of these are true but in my opinion it is none of the above. The dial does not have any contact with the case and there is actually a substantial gap between the case and the dial. My theory is they were caused by people working on them did not remove or replace the dial properly. The dial feet are located at the 11:00 & 5:00 position and if the screws that are located in the movement that hold the dial down were not loosened enough the dial could be damaged when taking it off, or conversely when you put the dial back on the screws were tightened to much this could easily create stress point that over time or immediately cause a minute hairline that you could only see under a loupe. Just what the world needs is another theory!!!! As far as being delicate, I wear mine frequently and have never damaged a dial or caused a hairline. Special dials were made in limited numbers such as: Full applied Breguet numeral (also on my list to own someday) Dial with Arabic numerals at 3, 6, & 12. The Masonic with writing “Do unto others as you would unto yourself”. This dial is not enamel. Diamond dial mostly for the platinum and white gold, also not enamel. Black enamel dial with baton markers. I heard there was rose gold black enamel with applied Breguet numerals. That I would love to see and own (though I doubt I could afford it, but it’s nice to dream). I must mention that Christies Auction house had the best selection of 2526’s I have ever seen in there Nov 2008 auction. If you can find this catalog and keep it for future reference. One must be very careful when purchasing the 2526 to inspect the dial very carefully. Hairline cracks in the dial can deduct a lot from the value of the watch. With that said, it would not detract me from buying one with a hairline (especially some of the rarer models) but it should be priced accordingly. Movement: The movement was Patek Philippe’s 1^st self winding movement, the 12-600-AT. The 12 stands for 12 lignes the movement’s diameter. Lignes being a unit of measurement, 1 ligne is equal to 2.26 mm. The 600 denotes the movement overall height in mm. somewhat of a misnomer seeing how the movement is actually 5.45 mm, oh well close enough. The AT stands for Automatic. The movement is 30 jewel, bi-directional winding, gyromatic balance, 18k gold rotor. There were several modifications of this movement during its relative short life (approximately 7-8 years). They reinforced the rotor axis, they improved the rotor mount, they replaced the eccentric wheel cam with a ball bearing and finally they added a 3^rd screw to secure the movement to the case. The early movements had what many described as rotor slap and you could actually hear it. This was eliminated after these mods. I also read that they originally had a beryllium bronze (glucydur) screw balance and this was replaced with the Gyromax balance wheel after s/n 760300. As mentioned I have s/n 760015 and it has the Gyromax balance plus I have a technical write up by patek that was given to their AD’s on how to explain the great features of the 2526 and in it they feature the Gyromax balance and do not mention the other one….another patek mystery. Bracelets: As mentioned earlier, “Gay Freres” designed different style bracelets for the 2526. They were carried over to the other references as new self winding watches were produced using the 12-600AT movements. These bracelets are distinguished by the same double back to back PP that is used on the crown. These bracelets were of the best quality and are very collectible. Summary: The 2526 in my opinion is not the fragile watch that many seem to think it is in fact it’s a very wearable watch. The dials are truly unique and cannot be duplicated though some have tried. The 12-600 AT movement though had some early problems they were not major and was an amazing piece of engineering and artistry and still sought after by collectors some 56 years later. The case work is classic in style and proportions. I personally believe every good collection should include a 2526. It is, the Iconic time only watch and truly one of the most beautiful and well known watch ever made. With such a broad selection to choose from there is one that suits everyone’s tastes and wallet. John Jan 30, 2009 I plan to write several article around collecting vintage/discontinued Patek Philippe watches. I am beginning the series with the 3970. I chose this reference because there is more diversity in this reference than any other series that I know of. One could focus on the 3970 and create an impressive collection just around just this one watch. First a little history, the 3970 began in 1986 and was discontinued in 2004. It replaced the 2499/100. The 2 watches shared many of the same exterior features. The most obvious differences being the case size and hands. The 2499 was 38mm in diameter vs the 3970 was 36mm diameter, both have a snap on back. Another minor difference is the hands, on the 2499 they were dauphine vs the leaf hands on the 3970. The movement was the major change. The movement on the 2499 was the Cal 13 CCR which was also used 1518. It was retired in 1986 when Patek discontinued the 2499/100 series. As mentioned above the 1^st series began in 1986 and was a snap back. It was limited to approximately 100 watches. The dials were a very subtle 2 tone difference between the sub-dials and the rest of the dial. The movement serial numbers began with 875000 and the case was #2824130. There was no price on the Patek price sheet in 1986. In 1987 the price was $42,000usd, and 1988 the price was $46,500usd. Patek began a 2^nd series where the case back was changed to a solid screw back. I don’t know if the case was fully waterproof at this stage. The dial changed very slightly and was no longer 2 tone. Typical of this series there exists several examples of 2^nd series with the 2 tone dial. Actually patek was getting many requests beginning around this time for special dials which some they would accommodate. This results in a variety of different case/dial combinations, thus making this reference (imo) having the most interesting variety in Patek history. Patek was also getting requests for a sapphire crystal screw back. Patek then began a new reference 3971 which came with the sapphire screw back while continuing to sell the 2^nd series with the solid back. Both were identical with the exception of the back. With the 2^nd series you also had the option to order the sapphire crystal screw back separately so you will see 2^nd series with both backs. The movement s/n during the 2^nd series was mostly in the 875XXX range. I say mostly because I was able to find at least 2 of the 2^nd series with lower 876XXX s/n’s. The 2^nd series ran from 1986 to approx 1991 when they began the 3^rd series. Someone in manufacturing finally caught one that this was ridiculous to have 2 separate references not to mention it must have been costing them some money, that they finally merged the 3970/3971 into what is known as the 3^rd series and called it 3970E. The “E” standing for “etanche” or translated “waterproof”. There were several changes at this time. The dial changed font, color, and the hour baton markers which went from squared ends to triangular. The hands changed to the baton style. All the 3970E’s now came with both backs which required a new box. Box was a little larger and had a clip for the spare back. Again it appears in the earlier years there was requests for special dials and some of them were granted so you get a large variety of looks. If you compare this to 5970 where you have the different model based upon which metal you ordered they are all uniform. All the white gold’s are the same as is the rose and now the yellow, not giving you the extraordinary variety you can see with the Reference 3970. Some combinations for the rose gold are; 1) 1^st series snap back/silver dial 2) 2^nd series screw back silver dial 3) 3971 with black diamond dial 4) 2^nd series silver dial, enlarged hallmarks on side of case (I have only seen 2) 5) 3^rd series silver baton dial Some combinations for the white gold are; 1) 2^nd series silver dial, enlarged hallmarks on side of case (I have only seen 1) 2) 3^rd series with gray diamond dial 3) 3^rd series with black baton dial. Some combinations of Platinum are; 1) 2^nd series with silver baton dial. 2) Black diamond dial. 3) Salmon diamond dial 4) Black baton dial. 5) Black Arabic dial 6) 3^rd series with silver baton dial 7) 3^rd series with diamond baguette dial Some combinations of yellow gold are; 1) 1st series with silver dial. 2) 2^nd series with silver baton dial. 3) 3^rd series with silver diamond dial (very rare). The combinations between the different cases, dials and hands is very large and this is part of the fun when looking for something different and unique. I anyone has any further information in regards to different dial/case combinations I would be happy to hear from you. I did not go into the different boxes or papers in this article, I just wanted to keep the focus on the watch itself. The information for this article came from Antiquorum and Christie catalogs, Huber & Banberry, and travelling to many shows looking and talking with dealers and collectors. John Watch News Jan 2009 I want to welcome everyone to my new web site. I hope you will find it a great improvement over my last one. I have added a feature that will give you more pictures along with better and larger shots of the watches. I really need to acknowledge and thank Ron Price, the site designer. He has spent many hours going back and forth with me on trying to get what we think is a very friendly and informative site and I could not be happier with the outcome. I will be using the "Watch News" feature to give my thoughts and what I see happening in the watch collecting market. This will include my trips to different watch shows and auctions. As many of you know I have been focussed mostly on Patek Philippe for many years. I am also very interested in several other watch house's, Vacheron, Lange and Journe just to name a few. They have some very unique high grade movements with interesting functions, or in the case of the Journe CS just an incredibly accurate time keeper. We are going through some difficult times in the world economy and it's also having an impact on our small world of watch collecting. I believe it to be a combination of several factors not the least is the world economy, add to that the dollar got stonger against the Euro (at least for several weeks), and then there was a small impact with speculators primarily in the Rolex and Patek market. As time goes by all this will pass and hopefully everything will settle down and we can go back to enjoying our pastime once more. In the meantime I hope you enjoy the new site, and if there is something of interest you would like to see on this page please contact me and lets see if we can get it up there. For those (you know who you are) that are curious ,yes, I am still 57 years old and holding. Wishing you all a very happy, healthy and prosperous New Years John Lydon

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